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Grit ‘n’ Grace — The Podcast

Episode #224: Embracing the Peace of Being a New Creation

 

Note: This is an unedited, machine-generated transcript that is 70-80% accurate.

 

Amy Carroll

Okay, Cheri, I am still thinking about last week’s interview with Andrew Farley.

 

Cheri Gregory

I was mind blowing. It was startling. It was a little unsettling.

 

Amy Carroll

Ah, revolutionary, it felt revolutionary to me.

 

Cheri Gregory

I did it felt a little scary. I was like, Well, first of all, I was like, how dare you say some of these things? And then I was like, and what if it’s true? And I suspect it

 

Amy Carroll

is? Yeah, I have to confess I was nervous going into that interview, even just reading a little bit as a encapsulated version of the book. I was like, Oh, where are we going theologically with this? And then it was so full of Scripture and truth. And it just made me realize I’ve got decades of wrong thinking to correct

 

Cheri Gregory

exactly, I’m in exactly the same place. Can’t wait to talk it through further.

 

Amy Carroll

Absolutely. This is gonna be a fun combo.

 

Cheri Gregory

Well, this is Cheri Gregory.

 

Amy Carroll

And I’m Amy Carol,

 

Cheri Gregory

and you’re listening to grit and grace, the podcast that equips you to lose who you’re not love who you are, and live your one life?

 

 

Well,

 

Amy Carroll

today, we’re processing what we learned from Andrew Farley, co author of the perfect God, God’s invitation to live from the heart. Okay, there are so many knots that we have to address. But we’re going to hear Sherry, allegedly, so start us off. Well, what are we going to lose today?

 

Cheri Gregory

All right, well, we always start during a Convo we always start with lose who you’re not. And boy, this one jumped out of me during the interview. And then I even had to go back to the transcript to read it and make sure it was really there. Because Andrew said, and I’m quoting here, he said, you’re not an obstacle. You’re not an obstacle in in basically to God, you’re his instrument, and you’re a perfect fit with a perfect God. And then he went on to say it’s amazing. It’s a miracle. That’s really what salvation is about. And,

 

Amy Carroll

you know, I love that he

 

Cheri Gregory

said that changing from the old formulaic way of approaching his relationship with God didn’t happen in a lightning bolt moment. But it was 10 years of replacing old thoughts with new thoughts. And you know, it’s kind of another example of that. And going from a fixed mindset to the growth mindset, you like to talk about me?

 

Amy Carroll

Yes, I love that. I love that.

 

Cheri Gregory

But here’s the thing, you’re not an obstacle. Why this jumped out at me so much, and why this is something that’s going to be I’m going to be consciously and intentionally paying attention to now is I’ve always felt like and quite honestly, I’ve often been the odd one out or kind of a misfit or an outsider. So listening to Andrew, I realized that I’ve taken all those emotions of feeling like I didn’t belong, and I’ve kind of put them on God and applied them to my relationship with him as if it’s recess, and the teacher is watching. So God goes ahead and picks me for his team and but he’s got this kind of attitude. Well, I guess we have to have Sherry And then Jesus and the Holy Spirit or like rolling their eyes going, Oh, no, not her again. And then they they get all three give me a look that says can you try not to screw it up? Like we really think we have a chance of winning but then we got stuck with you. And then I’m like feeling to myself. Well, poor God, poor Jesus, poor Holy Spirit, they have to put up with me. And so just really sitting with this whole truth that maybe I’m not an obstacle. Maybe it’s okay for me to be on the same team. Oh,

 

Amy Carroll

okay. I don’t know whether to laugh or cry. Okay, so I know you’re fully on God’s team, but you’re invited to mine too. Oh, thank

 

Cheri Gregory

you. Okay, so anyway, so for me that was the big takeaway. You’re not an obstacle no matter how you feel. No matter where you have or haven’t fit before or been included or been picked or not pick you’re not an obstacle to God. How about you

 

Amy Carroll

that really lands with me too, but mine is you’re not more holy. If you’re angsty.

 

 

We’re no, it sounds great. But

 

Amy Carroll

under all, I think I have equated being angsty with being holy, because here’s my thinking that in it, um, to church girl to really say this out loud. But when I processed it under it all, I really thought, Well, if you’re in a knot, it’s a sign that you’re working hard. And even if you’re not getting it all right, God approves of that.

 

Cheri Gregory

So basically, as long as you’re miserable. Misery is equated with holiness.

 

Amy Carroll

As long as you believe you’re a worm, as long as you are always feel like you’re falling short, then at least God knows you’re trying. Okay, that is some messed up thinking isn’t that instead, Andrew really challenged us to live in the peace of knowing that we’re already there. And not because we’ve worked harder but because God has completed his work. And as I said, it is I was really nervous about this interview, truly, because I was like, where are we going theologically here? I actually did have a friend that gave me a book several years ago that I finally put down because I just it was theologically wonky and accurate. And it actually espoused the idea that this is where I thought Andrew was going to go. And he didn’t espouse the idea that we can become sinless, and that we need to move in sinlessness. And the belief that we are sinless, I think that’s hugely dangerous. And that is not what Andrew was saying in his interview, but I was like, is that weren’t going but it wasn’t. But what he is saying was that because he used so much scripture, and that was such a consolation to me, and very early in the interview, I relaxed because I was like, Okay, what he is saying is that holiness comes from the work that God has done what he has completed through Jesus on the cross. And that Andrews point was exactly where I was, and I think I’ve been working out of it, but I always kind of default to it that he had made too much of himself and his own work. And that really resonated with me.

 

Cheri Gregory

All right, so lose who you’re not say yours one more time, because I love it so much.

 

Amy Carroll

You’re not more holy, just because you’re angsty.

 

Cheri Gregory

All right, so we’re gonna leave the nuts behind and we’re going to move to love who you are. And this one also jumped out at me, I had no trouble picking this one out. And it just, I’m gonna have a hard time saying it because it just feels so amazing. You are compatible with Jesus, you are compatible with Jesus. And again, he said that, I’m just going to go ahead and read it from the transcript here believe that you’re compatible with Jesus that you’re not an obstacle, you’re his instrument. You’re a perfect fit with a perfect God. I mean, that’s amazing. That’s a miracle. That’s really what salvation is. And so, you know, I was like, okay, maybe I don’t understand what compatible means. So I did what we do. I looked it up in the dictionary,

 

 

oh wordy girl

 

Cheri Gregory

I did. And it made me so happy. It comes from a Latin word that means to be in sympathy with and it said to see the word compassion also to be compatible with Jesus means I’m in sympathy with him, and he with me, and then capable of existing or performing in harmonious or agreeable combination? like do I really think of myself as capable of existing or performing in harmonious agreeable combination with Jesus? No, I mean, to be really honest, I had a hard time preparing for our conversation today. And it wasn’t until yesterday evening, I realized it’s because I really have seen God as being distant from me. Like he’s always there. But it’s always been in a watching, like, I just finished teaching 1984 to my AP students. And so it’s always been kind of like God is always there like the telescreens. And this and the secret police and like Big Brother always watching Oh, but not the sense of being in harmony or in agreeable combination.

 

Amy Carroll

You know, what you’re making me think that is like a pet. All of our friends that are listening can relate to this to that when there’s a certain author that you read that author and you’re like, I could go to coffee with her. Yeah. So what you’re saying is Jesus could go to coffee with you. Not that you would choose to get a coffee with Jesus, because, you know, we would have already said that this Christian girls bed Jesus would choose to go to coffee with you, that makes me so happy. Yes.

 

Cheri Gregory

Yes, yes, yes. So and then there’s another definition capable of being grafted, transfused or transplanted from one individual to another without reaction or rejection. Amazing. And I just love all of that so much. And then I love how Andrew went on to describe the way that God disciples us in terms of being a coach who’s training us for the future, I thought this whole idea of God as coach was just an amazing metaphor. And it made me think of you, Amy, Carol. That’s cool.

 

Amy Carroll

I like that continue, please.

 

Cheri Gregory

It made me think back to when you were my speaking coach. We worked together for several years, and you helped me write and refine all the retreat talks that I have have given probably in the last 10 years. And then after I did them, you review the videos, so I can make them even better. So fun. It was wonderful. And here’s the thing, never was I afraid to meet with you. I never ever worried that you were gonna yell at me or ask what on earth I was thinking when I said a certain thing or did a certain thing and I never once worried that you were going to somehow punish me for mistakes that I had made during a message I had already given in the past.

 

Amy Carroll

I love that

 

Cheri Gregory

every time I sent you a video, I knew it included mistakes and even some things that I tried flop Like, there were awkward things and awkward moments on those videos. But you never said you never came back and said, Okay, that’s it, you’re not a speaker. Clearly, you don’t have what it takes, I’m going to call that retreat coordinator and tell her she should demand the church’s money back from you. You weren’t focused on dealing with the past, you were focused on training me for the future. And the way you did it was by constantly calling out what you saw that was already inside of me. And so time and time again, you pointed out things that I didn’t know I was doing that were good, so that I could do them more intentionally, and so I could do them better. And so when I would get up on stage, especially on a Friday night, when the nerves are there, and tired from traveling stuff, I never worried that you were sitting at home going, Oh, I hope she doesn’t screw up too badly this time, or those poor women have no idea what a mess she is. Or maybe she’ll finally figure out this weekend, what a wretched were mother speaker she is and finally quit. I mean, like, I knew you weren’t thinking those things. I knew that you thought of me as a real speaker. In fact, you went so far as to invite me to speak with you a few years ago. And we were actually compatible we performed in harmonious or agreeable combination.

 

Amy Carroll

In fact, that group said that we were better together than I had been by myself the year before. So that was a wonderful thing.

 

Cheri Gregory

That was amazing. So here’s, here’s where I’m going with all of this. If your words about me had so much impact on my life as a speaker, how much more of an impact should God’s words have on me, like he knows exactly what’s inside of me, because he’s the one who put it there. So to put this in really, really practical terms. Last week, I had a situation where it felt initially easier not to tell the truth about what I was thinking and feeling like I really wanted to stuff it, I wanted to hide the truth. Okay, this wasn’t one of those cases where I was just trying to finesse the situation, I actually wanted to be dishonest by omission. But then I remembered our conversation with Andrew and I thought, I have the righteousness of Christ in me and I am allergic to sin. And I remember that he said, whether you realize it or not, you’re going to prove this, there’s this whole idea of allergy to sin, you’re going to prove your new identity in Christ one way or another, you’re going to prove it by sending and being miserable, or by trusting Jesus and being fulfilled. And I realized that if I kept faking fine, which is something we’ve talked about through the years, I would be choosing passive deceit, which is not a fruit of the Spirit. I’ve looked it up passive deceit is not on the list of foods

 

Amy Carroll

out there fact, check that this afternoon.

 

Cheri Gregory

And I knew that if I faked fun, I would in fact, end up feeling miserable. Yeah, and I believe you and I both have plenty of experience with that approach of faking fine, and being really, really bitter and miserable afterwards. So it’s gonna feel really strange to say this, but this is what I experienced in collaboration with Christ. I chose active honesty. Now I did my best to be candid and kind. I don’t think I did it perfectly. And here’s the thing, I used to think that my performance was evidence of whether or not God was with me, like if I did it perfectly, God was with me, if I faltered, or if it didn’t go well. And then I needed to apologize. Well, then clearly God wasn’t with me. But here’s the thing, he is always with us. The issue isn’t a perfect performance. The issue is obedience, listening to our coach, as he calls out what he knows is already within us.

 

Amy Carroll

That’s fantastic. And it’s so interesting that you brought up our coaching situation, because I was processing This is what I always tell people on the front end is I say, I will give you honest critique because that’s what you’re paying for right or in our situation with God because that’s what we are in relationship with God. He’s our father, he’s allowed to give us that honest critique, but I’m a cheerleader at heart. And I think that’s true of God, a coach, a cheerleader, whatever you want. He is that he is our greatest coach, our greatest cheerleader, so good.

 

Cheri Gregory

I love that and realizing that the reason I was having trouble wrapping my mind around all this is I’ve not thought of him that way. And so for me to think of God and I will I’ll be imagining, okay, what if God is more like me, then that distant Big Brother hovering over and watching and judging me, that’s going to actually be really helpful because I know how I would respond if he was more like you because I have that I have that lived experience with you. So this this is going to be my ongoing process. To live in this truth. You are compatible with Jesus,

 

Amy Carroll

while I am trying to live into this new truth for me too, which is you are open hearted when Andrew was talking. This was amazing because I had just like I think the day before I’ve been journaling a little bit about this, and I’m an inconsistent journaler but I’ve been journaling a lot recently because God’s been doing a lot in my heart recently. It God was really showing me how self protective I’ve become over the years and I think we all have this tendency, especially the older we get, because then the older we get, the more accumulated hurts and slights and relational rubs and all of that it starts to accumulate and build up. And if we’re not careful that build up becomes a real shell around us. And that’s really what I’ve been experiencing. And what God is starting to point out and and tear down in me is that shell that I built around my heart because I want to protect it not because I don’t like people or that kind of, but I’m trying to protect myself. But when I believe that God’s work is finished in my heart, that I no longer have to protect my heart. So this has just been an ongoing processing. And God just continues to bring things into my path that is helping me with this. So I listened recently to Rene Browns podcast where she it was right after the election, but I think it was the day after the election before we had results. And she was just reminding people of this trilogy that she has kind of created where she says strong back, soft front, wild hearts. And so I was really processing that because I love Bernie, I’ve, you know, learned so much from her. But I was like, is that scriptural? What is that? And I thought, well, the wild heart part really is is I think that when we are free in Christ, that our heart is wild in a way that this world does not even recognize like that is true freedom and true wildness of heart. But the strong back and the soft front, I felt like it is Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your mind with all your soul with all your strength, and then the soft front as and love your neighbor as yourself. And I thought really, those are the two greatest commandments that Jesus told us. The strong back comes from that structure, that we get that framework that we get that kind of skeleton that we get of that strength that comes from loving God with all that we are and then and only then can we have the soft front that loves our neighbor as ourselves like that open heartedness that I know that God is calling me to say there’s Andrew Farley’s interview, there’s the Bernie brown interview. And then I you know, Sherry, that I have stepped into a season with a spiritual director,

 

 

how exciting,

 

Amy Carroll

it is exciting. And it is. It’s been in two calls, so transforming to have someone listen with empathy to me, which makes me tear up to even say it because how often do we listen to empathy to each other? Not a lot. She is modeling for me to the person I want to be also. And as she listens with empathy to me this week, I was processing I’ve been reading through john, looking at the suffering of Jesus. And at the end of john to it’s astounding when you start making an account of each thing. But at the end of john two, it says that Jesus entrusted himself to know man because he knew what was in man. That’s the loose Amy translation, but it’s close. And I was like, Oh, there it is. It’s that strong back soft front, because he entrusted himself only to God, the one he was beloved with his whole being, and yet he loved other people deeply that didn’t close him off to God, it opened him up to God. But then Christy masterseal director reminded me She said, but Jesus didn’t trust himself, in some ways, not like fully to God only. But he entrusted himself to Mary and Joseph as they parented him, he entrusted himself to his disciples, as he created friendships with them, he entrusted himself even to the authorities that killed him. At the end of his life. He’s there was a surrender there, there was an open heartedness there. And she just reminded me that in all of this to run immediately open hearted again, that we are all made for community and even Jesus modeled that. And so when Anders thought that we can trust our hearts because Jesus has replaced our heart of stone with a heart of flesh, it makes it easier to be open hearted, because I can trust that God is there that Jesus resides there, as Andrew said,

 

 

So, so

 

Cheri Gregory

powerful, so you are open hearted is your statement of who you are. All right. Well, let’s move on to the practical takeaways here. Live your one life well, and normally I have a whole series of questions. And I’m just going to ask one question. What if it’s true What if it’s true? What if it’s true that Jesus lives in you? What if it’s true that we have the righteousness of Christ within us? What if the concept behind the perfect view, which you know, of course, as a recovering perfectionist, we had, you know, raised all sorts of red flags. But of course, the perfection, in the perfect view has nothing like like you said earlier, it has nothing to do with us and our performance or behavior or our works. What if it has everything to do with the perfection of Christ? What if it’s true? What would that mean for you?

 

Amy Carroll

Well, you saw and our friends can’t say, but I teared up when he said that, what if it’s true? What a powerful, powerful question. So Andrew gave us this key verse, Romans 617, through 18. And I’m gonna flip this, I’m going to read this first, because the action to take kind of flows out of this. So he gave us this verse where it says, but thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart, to that form of teaching to which you were committed. And having been free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. That’s Romans, 617, and 18. And, you know, this idea that we are slaves to righteousness, Andrew, and I unpacked that some in our last episode. But I also kept thinking about that scripture that we are a new creation in Christ, and this whole idea that we have been made something new. And so the action this week that I want to challenge you to take is just get a little note card, a little slip of paper, and write, I am a new creation on it. And then each morning, put it on your mirror someplace, you’ll see it each morning, repeat that for as long as it takes to start to believe that it’s true. And remember, see, this is something I’ve always heard that but thought, this is something I have to make true. But it’s not something we make true is something that’s already true. I am a new creation, you are a new creation. And when I’ve think that when I can tear down those decades of living in the untruth, that I have to make that true, then something will some things will really, really change.

 

Cheri Gregory

I love that. So what is the grit for you? Well, I’m

 

Amy Carroll

going to have to really interrupt my thoughts. And my feelings are an indicator of what I’m thinking. So when I start to feel like I have to work harder or drift into shame, then I know I need to interrupt my thoughts and correct those decades of wrong thinking, remind myself of the work that has already been done in me because of Christ. And the grace for you, Sherry, you know, the

 

Cheri Gregory

grace is this amazing presence of God in our lives. Like even though we’ve had all this wrong thinking, and we’ve been trying so hard on our own, and we make so many mistakes, and we keep trying and keep not getting it right. He’s right here. And he’s not chewing us out. And he’s not rolling his eyes. And, you know, to use my earlier illustration, he and Jesus and the Holy Spirit are not rolling their eyes going oh, you again. You know, we were hoping you would have gotten better by now. The grace is that he is here to cheerlead us and to guide us and to be here with us as we are growing in the daily habits of having the new heart that is in us. That’s really good news. It

 

 

is such good nice.

 

Cheri Gregory

Friends. I can’t stop thinking about the six quiz questions. Andrew Farley asks, at the beginning of the perfect you God’s invitation to live from the heart, I’m going to read them through again. And I’m going to invite you to think about which of these resonate with you. Number one, I wish my whole heart belonged to God. Number two, I wish I looked more like Jesus on the inside. Number three, I wish I were closer to God. Number four, I wish I didn’t want to spend so much. Number five. I wish I were more dependent on God. Number six, I wish I had more love for God.

 

Amy Carroll

All right, Sherry. So you asked our friends to which one resonated the most with them, but which one resonates the most with you?

 

Cheri Gregory

Well, as someone who’s been called a control freak for as long as I can remember number five, which is I wish I were more dependent on God feels so incredibly true. Like if only I could figure out how to be completely dependent on God then like number 1234 and six would actually take care of themselves. So how about you, Amy?

 

Amy Carroll

I think it’s number two. I wish I look more like Jesus on the inside. And it’s funny because I think it’s tied into some of what we do. Which is because as communicators as writers and speakers and stuff we do a lot of navel gazing was so we can talk about them and and be honest with other people so they can connect with the problem but just like we’ve done with grace and grace, we tried to spend less time on Lucy or not, and and more time on love who you are. And I think that’s the call that I need to follow as

 

 

well.

 

Cheri Gregory

So here are the answers that Andrew lays out at the very beginning of the book because these are the premise of the whole thing. Number one, your whole heart belongs to him. Number two, you are as clean and righteous and as holy as Jesus on the inside. Three, you are as close to God as Jesus is right now and forever. Number four, you don’t really want to sin and there’s a shocking reason you still do. Number five, you are naturally dependent on God. It’s actually your new default setting. And number six, you have an undying love for God, you don’t need more love for

 

Amy Carroll

him. These all feel true. They are true based in Scripture, and there’s something that we can count on.

 

Cheri Gregory

Well, friends, We sure hope you’ve enjoyed listening to episode number 224 of grit and grace the podcast as much as we’ve enjoyed making it for

 

Amy Carroll

you. And we want to say a big thank you to Andrew Farley, co author of the perfect God God’s invitation to live from the heart and his publisher Salem books for making this episode possible.

 

Cheri Gregory

Check out our web page at grit and grace the podcast.com slash Episode 224. There you’ll find this week’s transcript a link to order the perfect you God’s invitation to live from the heart and a link to Andrews website which has some great resources related to his book.

 

Amy Carroll

Next week we’ll be talking with Christie galtier. co author our journey of the soul A Practical Guide to emotional and spiritual growth.

 

Cheri Gregory

For today, grow your grit, embrace God’s grace. And as God reveals the next step to live your one life. Well

 

Amy Carroll

we’ll be cheering you on. So take it