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Grit ‘n’ Grace: Good Girls Breaking Bad Rules

Episode #109: Being a Loved Daughter Who Does All the Things 

 

Amy

Cheri, what’s the best compliment you’ve ever gotten?

 

Cheri

Well, I’ll tell you what I used to think was the best compliment. It was years ago, when Kathi Lipp and I were first friends, she used to call me one of the hardest working people she knew. And I thought that was the best compliment.

 

Amy

It is.

 

Cheri

It’s a really good compliment. And then, a few years into knowing her, I started doing battle with perfectionism, and I realized I don’t want to be the hardest working person anybody knows. I want to be fun. I want to be creative. But hardworking – it’s not a bad compliment; I just don’t value it the way I used to. How about you? What’s the best compliment you’ve ever been given?

 

Amy

Well, your answer calls mine into question, because my best compliment came from you, Cheri Gregory! When you were at my house last summer. We had worked all day, and you were like, “Are you ready to call it quits?” And I said, “Oh, let’s go ahead and finish this,” and at the end you said, “Amy, you have out-Cheri-Gregoried, Cheri Gregory.

 

<Laughter>

 

And then you said that was the most egotistical compliment you’ve ever given. But I loved it. I knew what it meant, and I was so proud.

 

Cheri

It was absolutely meant as high praise, and we also had lots of fun. So!

 

Amy

Yes, we did. So what the worst compliment you’ve ever gotten?

 

Cheri

You know, this is just gonna come across so bad. We’re just gonna lose listeners right now. I hate it when people tell me I’m smart, because I don’t care about being smart. It just doesn’t matter to me. And I really hate it when people are like could you do this for me, ‘cause you’re so smart? They use it as a way, like, they think that complimenting my intelli- – I had nothing to do with it. I did not choose either of my parents. I did not choose the home I grew up in. Compliment something I have some impact on, don’t – and being smart is just – I know for some people it’s the biggest thing. I could care less. How about you?

 

Amy

Okay, Dr. Gregory.

 

<Laughter>

 

Cheri

Are you saying I’m being a hypocrite? Whatever!

 

Amy

Well, the worse compliment I’ve been getting all the time recently…honestly, a man walked up to me, where was it? Oh, I was in the hospital waiting room during my dad’s surgery. And said, “Has anybody ever told you you like Kris Jenner?”

 

Cheri

You’ve got to be kidding.

 

<Laughter>

 

Amy

And I’m like…every day. Thank you!

 

Cheri

No!

 

Amy

What is up with that! I don’t want to be a hater, but I just don’t know that Kris and I would really get along. So, anyway, we should probably move along.

 

We have a listener who said, “I’m a 67 year old Christian woman who loves to work with women in many different areas. I still have a desire to do what’s my very best, and I fear falling below my expectations and those of others. Sometimes it seems like the expectation comes from glowing compliments from others, which only makes me try harder to live up to what they want.” So compliments are great, but they’re trouble when we start living for them. And that’s when we know we’ve crossed over into people pleasing, which is the topic we’re going to discuss with Katie Reid today.

 

Cheri

Well, this is Cheri Gregory.

 

Amy

And I’m Amy Carroll.

 

Cheri

And you’re listening to Grit-n-Grace: Good Girls Breaking Bad Rules, the podcast that equips you to lose who you’re not, love who you are, and live your one life well.

 

Amy

Today, we’re talking to Katie Reid, author of Made Like Martha: Good News For The Woman Who Gets Things Done. Katie encourages try-hard women to find grace in the unraveling of life. She’s a national speaker and a singer-song writer, a pastor’s wife and a mom to 5 wild children, so she’s anything but bored.

 

Cheri

So if you’re the kind of grit n grace girl who tends to be a bit heavy on the grit and a little light on the grace, Katie has got good news for you today.

 

Amy

So Katie, you have addressed one of my favorite people – Martha in the Bible. But she’s challenging because she’s been talked about so much. So what made you want to write another book about Martha?

 

Katie

Well, I hear ya. There are a lot of books about Martha. But Martha, same here, one of my favorite characters, probably because I can relate so much to her. And I feel like the poor thing has gotten such a bad rap, right?

 

Cheri

So true.

 

Amy

This is one of my pet peeves! Man, does women’s ministry pile on or what?

 

Katie

Well, and for centuries, we’ve bought into a lie, I believe, Mary’s and Martha’s alike that there is something wrong with being like Martha. And I think back, as if I were there, at the Garden of Eden. I really wasn’t there, but I can read about it, right? And the serpent twists things around with Eve, right? And Eve adds to what God said. And I honestly think, he kind of gave me this revelation by couch, and I was just jumping for joy when I realize he didn’t ask us to be Mary. And I think, he might ask us to emulate something, but he didn’t ask us to change our temperament. And I will shout glory hallelujah when I realized, but I was mad too, because here are all these wonderful women that are made like Martha, that we’ve bought into this lie or we’ve been told this lie that we need to be someone more than we already are or someone less, because maybe that’s what they say, you need to be a little less, tone it down. But here’s the thing. It’s not true! And I just want to bring freedom to people. When Jesus corrects Martha in the Bible, I don’t think he was saying stop cooking, because they needed to eat, right?

 

Amy

People were hungry.

 

Katie.

Yes. Now listen. Could Jesus have multiplied bread and fish? He might have. But he might have wanted her to keep cooking, but I think he was asking her to do it from a different place. But not necessarily stop being Martha, because I believe he made her to be a woman that gets things done.

 

Amy

Beautiful. Well, tell us, you talk about the modern day Martha. Who is that?

 

Katie

If you love a to-do list, you are a modern Martha.

 

Amy

Oh girl!

 

Katie

I mean that’s the best way I can describe it. If you are a to-do list kinda gal that is you. Whether it gets done or not, right? But here’s the thing, one of my endorsers, she messaged me. And she says, Katie, these check marks in your book are giving me life. And I said I know! Because there’s a check mark in the front, and there’s a place in the back where you can take your pen and check it off. And I was just so happy about that. If that excites you to check things off your list, I think you are a modern Martha.

 

Cheri

Well, I was going to say, I love the cover of your book. Because just seeing that beautiful check all the way in the box just gives me a good hit of adrenaline. It makes me feel that all is right with the world. Well, you as may well know, Katie, our listeners are kind of a mix between reforming perfectionists and people pleasers and then those of us who are highly sensitive people. And so, in chapter two you talk about laying down what if, and laying down even if. So what kinds of what if do you find that women are wrestling with?

 

Katie

Well, you know I did a very professional survey on Facebook. Wink, wink. And I asked women what do you worry about. And they came in with all of these things. One woman said what if I’m not enough for my kids, or I have a friend who is married to an African American man and she’s like what if he gets wrongly accused or pulled over? Then I’ve got everything from big and small things. People are like what if I don’t turn in my paper for school on time? I mean everything you can think of across the gamut. People are asking those worries those what if, what if. I kind of imagine those flies swarming overhead. What if this happens? What if that happens?

And when you are made like Martha, we can wear those worries as a badge sometimes, because we can be like we’re responsible. We are thinking through every scenario. I know, Amy, you’ve got some home renovations going on. So I’m imaging, tell me if I’m wrong, you are thinking in your mind what if they start working on this part of the house? I need to be over here. And some of that can be problem solving, right? But it can easily morph into this worry fest. And so I talk about laying down these what ifs and choosing to trust God even if those worries happen. And that is so hard.

I mean it’s easy to write a cute little statement that says that. It is much harder to live, but I think about Shadrach. Meshach, and Abednego and about how they said we know God can deliver us, but even if he doesn’t were still gonna trust him. And I think when those worries sometimes become a reality; we have a choice to make. Are we going to believe that he is a good father, even then? Or not. We have a choice in those moments, but what we talk about in the book that he is such a good father, and he loves us, his daughters. And he loves us even when we’re in a worry-fest. And I think that’s something I used to not believe. I used to believe that if I’m missing the mark, he’s not pleased with me. And once I realized he already settled his love for me on the cross, and that was nothing I did. It gave me a lot of freedom. It took me a while to get there, but once I got there I was like, “Oh Lord, thank you so much.”

 

Cheri

Okay, so I’m gonna get real personal here, Katie. What specific ‘what if’ is your biggest struggle?

 

Katie

Oh man. I’ll give a quick story to illustrate. So we have 5 children. We have 4 children biologically and one through adoption, and my biggest fear with adoption was that it would fall through. It really doesn’t happen all that much, but you hear, whether it’s a lifetime movie or someone tells you [a real life event], and that was my big what if. Like I don’t think I can make it if this happens. Well, that happened. We got a call, “Can you be at the hospital tomorrow? Yes! We get there; we walk in. We never even made it past the waiting room. We never met the baby or the mom. She actually left the hospital for a couple of days, came back, and changed her mind. And that was so, so hard. I had some words with the Lord, “Like, really God? We stepped out in faith, did you really think we could handle this, and then I thought about having to go home and tell my kids who were at home waiting for their brother to arrive home. Not only was I going to grieve, but I had to be strong for these other people who grieving, too.

And the end of the story is three months later we adopted our son, but, even if it wouldn’t have had this happy ending, which I know many people haven’t, he was still so faithful to us. He gave us a peace even though I was literally sick to my stomach. There was a peace there that could not be explained. And I remember a friend calling me and she said you know this is like a Job moment, but from Job’s perspective we might not know why this ever happened, but he is good. And in that moment I could have chosen to respond like an orphan, by saying I’ve been abandoned by my father by him not giving me this child, or as a daughter. And obviously I had my shout out moments to God but he got us through it. And another friend of mine, her husband had cancer, and that was her biggest worry. And she said to me, “You know what sometimes when your biggest worry happens it bolsters your faith because you realize, oh my goodness, this was the thing I was dreading the most, and God was still faithful in it.”

 

Amy

So Katie in chapter 5 you say, “I put on my Miss Dependability sash and pile on the responsibilities. I do good works to gain worth. I try hard and work fast, but it electrocutes me. My efforts to be the best zap me of energy and burn up joy,” so people pleasing on the surface seems like such a harmless habit. We treat it like a spiritual gift. So talk to us about the energy zap and the joy burnout you’ve experienced and seen other women experience too.

 

Katie

Yeah, I think you’re absolutely right, Amy, that it can look like a noble thing to try to keep everybody happy or pleased. But I have this picture in my mind of myself completely depleted. Three of my big kids were at vacation bible school at our church, and I needed to come pick them up. Well, I had been working so hard on some work projects, staying up late and getting up early and just trying to make everything perfect that I had nothing left. And I was leaning up again this cement wall hoping that no one would talk to me, because I didn’t even think I had the energy for that.

And I went home, and I was basically sick with exhaustion. And I had completely depleted myself. My nice, caring, smart husband had been trying to tell me this for a while, but it took me being in bed for a day. Now, listen, I have struggled with that since. It’s not like one and done. I’m a little stubborn, so I keep trying to do things the way I think they should go. It literally physical wore me out. But I was operating under this belief that I have to be flawless to be accepted and loved. Even though I don’t think anyone was putting that on me except myself. I mean God certainly wasn’t, because he knew I was flawed and he came to die for me because of it. And my husband had grace for me. But I was literally making myself sick trying to do so much and do it exceptionally.

 

Amy

Hmm. Cheri and I might recognize parts of ourselves in that, Katie.

 

Cheri

I have no idea what either of you are talking about.

 

Amy

Well, and you have this other term that hit home so hard you talk about receptivity deficiency. What do you mean by that, and how has it impacted your relationships?

 

Katie

As a woman who gets things done, I tend to even from a very young age I acted like a mother. Now listen, my mom is a wonderful, capable mom. But for some reason, I just, that was my partly temperament, but I wanted to care for others, do things, take charge, maybe a little bossiness in there as a first born girl but God showed me something. But last year, do you guys choose one word for the year? Do you both do that? Okay. My word I felt like God gave me was daughter. And it seemed like kind of a weird word. I mean I have daughters. But he showed me, Katie, you know how to be a mom, but you don’t really know how to be a daughter.

And what he showed me is that Martha in the Bible had this issue as well. The best way to describe it is you have a hard time receiving. Because if you have a loving father and he wants to give you gifts and take care of you, you’re gonna receive that, right? But I was living like a slave. I had to earn that. I had to do enough. I had to take care of everybody else, but I had a hard time just receiving something just because. I felt like I had to be good enough, and God showed me that grace is a gift to be received not a prize to be earned and that made all the difference. It didn’t diminish that I was wired to do, but that was my starting place to learn to receive first.

 

Amy

Well, and you have this great quiz in your book, and Cheri and I we might know which Disney princess we are, we love a quiz. So tell us about this assessment in your book to help us see whether we have that mentality that same issue that you’re talking about.

 

Katie

Right. So we have two assessments. One is called the Hired Help Assessment and another way to describe the hired help is the orphan mentality or an attitude of scarcity any of that, kind of, the same type of thing. But in this assessment you just kind of check if you believe these statements or not, and it’s not to answer how you think, you’ve gotta be honest. We all want to get the A, right? Or the A +. But just to say here’s where I am…

 

Cheri

She’s getting real personal Amy. Real personal.

 

Amy

I’m really good at Sunday school answers. I bet I could pass that quiz.

 

Katie

But here are just a couple of the statements, and I will say this, in the book, it says this is not a verdict, but an opportunity to evaluate honestly where you are in relationship to this Hired Help mentality. This is not the endgame right? This is a growth tool. So, for example, you have a hard time trusting and receiving love. Typically, when you get a yes, you feel loved. When you get a no, you feel unloved.

 

Other people’s success might feel like a threat to your happiness. You might worry that you’ll lose what you already have. And one more is you think you’re worth what you can earn.

 

Amy

That’s so powerful. And look. I’m the one that usually tears up in these interviews, and I’ve seen Cheri tearing up a few times.

 

Cheri

Cheri’s a mess over here. So tell us about the other assessment.

 

Katie

So a beloved daughter’s mentality assessment…. the beloved daughter believes there’s enough to go around. She’s not left out or left behind by God. She can extend grace to others, because she has been shown so much grace by God. She celebrates when others succeed, and thanks God for his goodness and gives him credit. When she fails, she knows she’s forgiven by Christ and able to forgive herself with his help. She believes God’s yes’s and no’s are for her good.

 

Amy

Wow. Wonderful.

 

Cheri

Chapter seven is titled the middle ground between striving and slowing: stewarding well without overdoing it. And this is something that many of our listeners have a hard time with, and I know that especially those of us who are highly sensitive people. We are so afraid of being perceived as lazy or weak or heaven forbid that we see ourselves as precious. So what practical advice do you have for our listeners that are ready to quit overdoing it, but they don’t know where to start stopping.

 

Katie

Absolutely. There’s a tool in the book called the streetlight strategy, and I need things spelled out just plainly for me, right. So think about coming to an intersection: the lights going to be red, yellow, or green. And so this tool helps you realize, “Okay, if I’m at this intersection, I need to be aware of my surroundings.” For example, I was asked to serve on a committee not too long ago, and for me this was a clear red-light situation. I mean I was working on the book. We have a busy family. I didn’t have extra room on my plate. If I would have added this, something would have started spilling off. And so, for me, it was a red light situation where I knew pretty clearly and quickly that I needed to say no to this. Now there are times when we’re faced with something where maybe we’re supposed to say yes, but something else needs to come off that plate. My husband has challenged me with that often, of okay, you can say yes to this but what else or what 2 things are you going to take off so you can do that?

And that’s so hard for a woman that likes to get things done, but I think the other can be true. Maybe you don’t have a lot of things on your plate, and God is presenting some opportunities. So red light situation, you need to know if you are packed to the max already, and you might need other people in your life reminding you, “Hey, you don’t have extra room right now.” And then if you find yourself in a yellow situation, okay, if the light’s yellow you have to think, “Do I have enough time to get across here, or do I need to get ready to stop?” A lot of this idea is, okay, who’s riding with you? Are you a single gal? Maybe your choices aren’t affecting a lot of other people, and you feel like you have some freedom there. Maybe, like me, you’ve got a full mini van, and you’ve got to figure out can I add more or do I need to take some things off? And obviously, we wanna say yes to God assignments.

My friend said the other day, Lisa Jo Baker had told her, God doesn’t call us to things to overwhelm us. And I don’t know about you, but sometimes I do feel overwhelmed. It doesn’t mean things aren’t going to be hard, but I think it’s also he doesn’t want us to live in this state of being worn out either. We also talk about there can be wisdom in delegating. That’s not a weakness. There are people that have read my book that are Mary’s, and they don’t struggle as much, maybe, with all of these things, but they said it helped them understand a little bit better other people who are wired that way. But then, also, I have a couple of Mary friends that appreciate me, because I kind of help them step it up. And I appreciate them, because they’re like you’ve got a lot going on. You might need to pare back a little bit.

 

Cheri

How about the listener who knows she needs to learn how to rest, but she’s tried, but she knows, but there’s so much. Do you have any simple, doable first steps for the woman who just needs to learn how to rest, because telling her to just stop isn’t gonna, well, it never worked for me, at least.

 

Katie

For me, I knew that I could just keep working, because I enjoy working. It’s fun for me. Even if I’m stressed out, I enjoy that, sometimes, most of the time. So, we have tried on Sundays to just, I try not to be on my phone very much. I try to read books, and I’ve realized rest is not a punishment inflicted upon me. It is an invitation to recharge. And the other thing is some of us think rest has to look one way, and when I realized it didn’t, there was so much freedom. I mean even in my family, we rest in all different ways. I like a 20-minute power nap, and then I like to go outside and read a book. My husband likes the two-hour nap where he’s down for the count.

And then I have friends who like to go running and that is restful for them. And so it doesn’t have to always be your feet are up and you’re laying on the couch unless that’s life giving to you. But I think, yes, we need to take a break from work. Sometimes, I think it’s hard for us to rest; yet it communicates such a trust in God. And I have found it to be true, the times I do take to rest, he multiplies my productivity later on. It really does work. So if you’re not convinced maybe you just need to think, okay well, if anything it’ll just make me more productive later if I take this break. But we do need rest. Absolutely, it is important. There’s so many women that are dealing with chronic illness.

I have a friend that I talk about in the book that she has to rest 19 hours a day to get a few hours of activity, but she is made like Martha. And so, for her, she still sometimes overdoes it. But I think it reminds us that, wow, our value does not come from our productivity. My brother has Down syndrome, and I talk about him in the book, too, that he has value because he exists. He doesn’t have to do all these things to have value so why am I so handicapped myself in understanding that. Because I know that’s true for him, but yet I still try to do these things to prove my worth. And God has said, “Hey, your worth was settled. I made you. I wove you in the womb. I died for you. My Holy Spirit resides in you.” My friend, Lee Nienhuis, she wrote the book Brave Mom, Brave Kids, and she talks about this idea of triple worth. I love that! We have triple worth. We’re made by God, so we have worth there. Jesus died on the cross for us, and then the Holy Spirit lives in us. And I just love that. We’re trying to teach our kids that as well.

 

Amy

That is powerful. Well, give us some closing words, Katie, to encourage the listeners today.

 

Katie

I just want to encourage you that if you’re made like Martha, you are fabulous. There is nothing wrong with being wired to get things done. But in the same breath the things that you do, may those things be an expression of your love for the Lord, not a way to try to get him to love you, because he already does. And so, works are important. There are works he has prepared in advance for us to do. But we want those to be an expression of thankfulness to him, not this striving that we’re trying to prove we’re enough. We weren’t enough and so Jesus came to be enough for us. And in him, if we have faith in him, if we’ve accepted him, we are enough because he is enough. And that wasn’t because we got 50 things checked off our to do list. He did his one thing, and it’s finished. That’s what I love, in the book, we have these little ‘it is finished’ activities just as a reminder that the greatest to do has been done. There’s a big check mark by our salvation, right? And so, that should bring a sense of rest into our spirit, even as our hands are busy.

 

Cheri

Head on over to gritngracegirls.com/episode109.

 

Amy

There you’ll find this week’s transcript, our digging deeper download, the bible verse art, and you’ll be able to enter to win this week’s giveaway of Made Like Martha.

 

Cheri

We would love to invite you to join the Grit-n-Grace Growth Team. Just go to www.patreon.com/gritngracegirls for all the details.

 

Amy

Next week we’ll be processing together what we’ve learned from Katie.

 

Cheri

For today, grow your grit; embrace God’s grace, and when you run across a bad rule, you know what to do. Go right on ahead and…

 

Amy & Cheri

Break it!