It’s the member of the Trinity that makes us most squirmy. Because of a lack of knowledge, many of us avoid talking about the Holy Spirit at all, and most of us have missed out on the gift of friendship with Him. Sarah Bowling, author of Your Friendship with Holy Spirit, shares a warm, down-to-earth approach to deepening our relationship with God through a greater understanding of Holy Spirit (she explains dropping the article “the” for us!). This episode will take you into the more intimate relationship with God that you’ve longed for.

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Your Turn:

  • What teaching have you received in the past about Holy Spirit?
  • Whether you’ve received teaching or it’s been absent, how has it left you feeling about this member of the Trinity?
  • How do you think that friendship with Holy Spirit can take you to deeper places in your faith?

Download:

Episode #255 Transcript

Featured Guest — Sarah Bowling

Led by Holy Spirit and anchored in the Word, Sarah seeks to inspire all to know the unconditional and transformational love of God in our daily lives. She is a discerning Bible teacher, an international speaker, and a global humanitarian. In 2019, Sarah launched her teaching ministry, Sarah Bowling – Living Genuine Love. Through her books, blogs, podcasts, videos, and live teaching events, Sarah is committed to sharing life-giving revelation that will transform lives on a daily basis. She is also the cohost of Today with Marilyn and Sarah (daily TV program), the founder of Saving Moses, and co-pastors Encounter church.

You can connect with Sarah on her website, on Facebook, and via Instagram.

Transcript — scroll to read here (or download above)

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Grit ‘n’ Grace — The Podcast

Episode #255: How to Build a Close Friendship with Holy Spirit

 

Amy Carroll
Well, today we’re gonna talk about the member of the Trinity that makes us the most squirmy.

Cheri Gregory
Squirmy, huh?

(Both laugh)

Well, because of a lack of knowledge. Many of us avoid talking about the Holy Spirit at all, and most of us have missed out on the gift of a friendship with him.

Amy Carroll
But today Sarah Bowling, author of Your Friendship with Holy Spirit, is going to share a warm, down-to-earth approach to deepening our relationship with God through a greater understanding of Holy Spirit.

Cheri Gregory
And for the grammar police out here she explains dropping ‘the’ from ‘the Holy Spirit’ for us.

Amy Carroll
Made it totally make sense for us. This episode will take you into the more intimate relationship with God that you have longed for.

Cheri Gregory
Well, this is Cheri Gregory –

Amy Carroll
– and I’m Amy Carroll –

Cheri Gregory
– and you’re listening to Grit’N’Grace: The Podcast that equips you to lose who you not love who you are, and live your one life well.

Amy Carroll
Today we’re talking with Sarah Bowling, author of Your Friendship with Holy Spirit: An Interactive Guide to Growing Your Relationship With God. A discerning Bible teacher, an international speaker, and a global humanitarian, Sarah seeks to inspire others to know the unconditional and transformational love of God in our daily lives. In 2019, Sarah launched her teaching ministry Sarah Bowling, Living Genuine Love. She is also the co-host of the daily TV show Today with Marilyn and Sarah, and co-pastor of Encounter church in Colorado.

Cheri Gregory
Father, Son, and… who?

Amy Carroll
The third member of the Trinity Holy Spirit is often only associated with unusual manifestations and the weird stuff. In some cases, Scripture and the supernatural have sadly been mishandled and have caused many to close the door to the Spirit altogether.

Cheri Gregory
But Holy Spirit is still a very relational part of the Godhead, and desires to be in relationship with us. As in all relationships, it’s more important to know someone than to just know about them.

Amy Carroll
In this interactive guide, author and teacher Sarah Bowling does a beautiful job of introducing us to our very dear friend Holy Spirit and walks us through specially designed exercises to help us deepen that connection,

Cheri Gregory
Sharing personal stories while examining Jesus’ introduction to Holy Spirit in John 14-16. Sarah reveals the wonder of the one Jesus calls our helper, comforter, counselor, friend, and so much more.

Amy Carroll
Sara’s interactive guide helps readers develop an understanding of Holy Spirit’s character and duties, a desire to know Holy Spirit more in ways to cultivate relationship with Holy Spirit on a daily basis.

Cheri Gregory
Here’s how Sarah describes her relationship with Holy Spirit: “I want to thank Holy Spirit for being my relationship anchor, life jacket, sun on the horizon, EMT, steady friend, wise counsel, parent of all parents and continual companion. I’m alive because of your genuine love.”

Amy Carroll
Isn’t it time for you to know the Holy Spirit this way too?

We felt such a kinship with you when we were in Colorado this summer, we had to invite you to Grit’N’Grace!

Sarah Bowling
I was so stoked! Because I felt the same way. I was like, “Oh, I really like these chicks! They’re real and fun and and spiritual, not just fluffy.”

Amy Carroll
Oh, love that. Love that. It was a fun chemistry. So you have written a spectacular book on Holy Ghost, and tell us a little bit of the backstory. What made you decide that you wanted to write a story on Holy Ghost?

Sarah Bowling
Yeah, I think you know, we talk about Trinity. Father, Son, Holy Spirit. And you know, a lot of us we get the idea of a father. I mean, whether you had a good one or a bad one, but father, and then you know, Jesus, Jesus is cool, because we can read about him in the Gospels. When we start talking about Holy Spirit, things get misty, kind of filmy if you will. And I think I felt compelled to do that, in part because I think Jesus said, “It’s better for you that I leave so that Holy Spirit will come.” And so I think if I’m a follower of Jesus, and I have to appreciate that Holy Spirit is here with me, and what does that look like? And I think most followers of Jesus, sometimes that gets a little fuzzy, murky, we might check the box and agree, kind of, but after that, we’re like, I don’t know what that means. So that’s why I felt compelled to write this.

Amy Carroll
Well, and so good because you heard me, even in the question, I defaulted to my Methodist upbringing, which is Holy Ghost which sounds like Casper the Friendly Ghost, like we don’t – like we don’t really – a lot of times, some denominations do better at talking about Holy Spirit than other denominations. And so it’s a great topic.

Cheri Gregory
Well, and I was raised in a nameless conservative denomination that could be described as the frozen chosen, and so you know, anything about the spirit might involve bodily movement, and that could also be a problem. We were thinkers, not feelers.

So anyhow, you start each chapter with a sort of a quiz, which Amy and I just love, you know, we may or may not know our Disney Princess quiz type. But I’ll have to admit, I’ve never seen quizzes quite like these. So what was your purpose and starting each chapter with an assessment?

Sarah Bowling
So this is like a relationship guide in this book. And it’s not a workbook, it’s not like a study guide, it’s a relationship. So I think in order to appreciate a relationship, a relationship has two. And sometimes we don’t know where we’re at, in our own thoughts. And I did that, I started with an assessment for each reader to kind of evaluate what they know what they don’t know, their mindsets, their perspectives, and sometimes we don’t even know the lens that we’re looking through. And until you start to think about those things, and appreciate your personal image, who am I and what do I think and how, you know, until we start to look at that stuff, it makes it difficult to have a relationship, when we’re not even clear on on who we are in ourselves. So that’s kind of why I did that, to kind of help each reader discover and articulate, you know, this is kind of my thinking, my background, my perceptions, my assumptions, you know, that’s really important.

Cheri Gregory
Well, that I love how you said it’s not a workbook, because as I was going looking through it, I found myself drawn in. I’m like, where’s the pencil, I need to get started. So it was very, very effective.

Amy Carroll
You spent some time unpacking the Greek word Jesus used for the Holy Spirit, parakaleo. Did I say that right, Sarah? Which we just love, as word nerds. And so why is this word so important?

Sarah Bowling
So this word, you know, when you look at it in English translations, look at any Bible translation, you’re going to have, you know, lots of different words, comforter, advocate, counselor, helper, all kinds of different words. And the challenge on it, I remember when I first started doing my core research, I was like, well, which one? What’s the right one? And I felt God say to me, Sarah, it’s all. This is all of who I am, not just one little facet of a glorious diamond. So what I think this does for us is we see these characteristics of who Holy Spirit is. Our comforter when – I don’t think there’s a person listening that doesn’t need comfort. Or how about help? I love that in the New American Standard, it’s used, they use the word helper. I love that. Because there’s not a person on the planet that doesn’t need help. We don’t admit it often. But we do need a boatload of help, I need help.

I saw my friend, I was like, you know, I can’t do makeup to save my life. You know, and I need help. And some people like, that’s so stupid. Well, I get it might be easy for you. But for some of us, we’re not, we don’t have some of these abilities, the assumed easy things. And so but something that’s hard for me might be easy for for somebody else, but I need help. And that there’s nothing wrong with needing help. In fact, there’s everything wrong with not admitting that we need help. And so that’s why I think this word parakaleo is so essential, because I think it’s the first kind of identity, you know, who is Holy Spirit. But if you can kind of drill down on identity, then that helps to facilitate relationship connection. And okay, it’s kind of introductory, if you will. And I think that you have to start at the beginning of any relationship is to kind of introductions.

Amy Carroll
Well, one thing that I noticed, even this summer, Sarah, was that you say Holy Spirit instead of the Holy Spirit, which a lot of times we put that article in front of it, because Holy Spirit’s a person, right? So often, I think we try to relegate it to this one, like a thing instead of a person that we have a relationship with.

Sarah Bowling
Yeah. And I understand why we use the – I mean, that’s in our Bibles, the Holy Spirit, I get it. And then our Bibles say, they include that article, I get it. But if you think about it, too, in the Bible, it doesn’t say the Jesus. I mean, this is a person so when we think of people, he, she, it, I’d prefer not to use it because it tends to be inanimate, right? But I mean, he, she, that’s a person, and then when you start with person, then you can kind of move forward in a relationship. If it’s just an object, then objects are for using, you know, or whatever to come alongside other you’re wearing whatever, but people, that’s relationship potential. And that’s why I think it’s so important that we kind of think about Holy Spirit in terms of personhood, and not object. And some denominations liken the Holy Spirit to an extension cord, you know, you plug it into the wall and you get power. And I think that’s a component. But again, we I think when we objectify, you know, that’s a great word that there’s very highly charged, but I think we need to think about let’s not objectify Holy Spirit, let’s keep Holy Spirit as a person with whom we can develop and cultivate a relationship.

Amy Carroll
That was great.

Cheri Gregory
My mind was off wandering, because I use the term pray-cess when I’m processing in prayer, because basically, for me, the reflective process, you know, pray without ceasing, for me, it’s just an ongoing dialogue with and I’m going to train myself, I think I can, there’s no reason to use the the Holy Spirit, it’s with Holy Spirit. And I also feel like my writing is a very intimate conversation. And when a new idea comes or new insight comes, and it almost always moves me to tears, it’s as if I’ve been having a really good collaborative conversation in which something sparked, and I just, but I hadn’t thought of it in those insights, relational terms. So thank you, thank you.

So you say in your book, you say we can have hindrances that prevent us from cultivating a growing relationship with Holy Spirit. What are some of the primary obstacles that you’ve seen? And how can we overcome them?

Sarah Bowling
Well, I think we talked about one of them and in terms of an object, you know, like, objectifying Holy Spirit, and not making, letting Holy Spirit be a person, but rather, extension cord, or whatever. So I think that’s one. I think another hindrance sometimes, and I say this with tremendous respect, 100% respect and honor, I’m not being critical, it’s not in my heart to be critical on this. I think sometimes we have a heavy duty denominational background, sometimes that can be a hindrance, because of some of the teachings, you know that well, Holy Spirit isn’t really active, or, you know, that was for the day of Pentecost, or sometimes I think, too, sometimes we might say who all the spirit is, but we have kind of weird ideas. And so there can be demonstrations and kind of expressions that might be strange or unusual. And I think sometimes, too, if we’re not careful, and I’ve seen this happen, I’ve absolutely seen it happen, where we will blame God or blame Holy Spirit for our own dysfunction. Will God told me to do yada yada yada, and, and so I think, and maybe we’ve heard somebody say that, and in our heads, we’re like, that’s wack, you know, seriously.

So I think these are some obstacles. You know, I think if we don’t evaluate, assess some of those, then they’re going to be hindrances. How can we have a relationship, when I have these biases, preconceived ideas, you know, we have to kind of disrobe those things take, unpack that and really put it bring it into the light. And then we can start navigating. But when we keep them hidden, or we keep them assumed, then it’s going to be just going to be a problem, we’re not going to have the potential intimacy that we could have with Holy Spirit.

Amy Carroll
Fantastic.

So you just talked about biases, and then you tell us that there are two forms of deception, internal deception and external deception. Can you explain and give an example of each of those? Is one worse than the other?

Sarah Bowling
Yes to all of those. Yes, to explaining the difference. So an external deception, I mean, that can be everything from fake news to a boss lying to a kid cheating on a test. I mean, those are all external. You know, if a teacher is reading and sees the cheating, plagiarism, these are all things that would be like external, but the difference I’d say for internal is when we think or believe things about ourselves, or the world around us that that’s not based on truth. And I think that’s really deadly.

Because – and Jesus says, Holy Spirit is a Spirit of Truth, and Holy Spirit will lead us into truth. And so if we don’t have Holy Spirit present in our lives, I would suggest that we’re going to be more vulnerable, susceptible to deception. And that’s really a big deal. Because Jesus says in John 8:44, the native language of Satan is deception. And so if you if we don’t have Holy Spirit as as the counterpoint Spirit of truth, then we’re going to have some real challenges. And if we think that we can figure out truth and deception, because we need help, yes, we need help.

And an example for me like you asked, you know, like, what does it look like internal deception for me, I remember I was a teenager and I wanted to be this amazing basketball player. And I would run these fantasies in my head. I loved basketball growing up, and I thought I could go on and play collegiate basketball and I remember I went to a basketball camp in in California, and one of the camp counselors – it was like this really fantastic camp, five days long, we played basketball for 15 hours a day, I was in heaven – this camp counselor said to me, took me to the site and said, you know, what do you want to do? Why are you here? I was like, because I love basketball. I want to play collegiate basketball. And he’s like, well, I’m just gonna tell you, that’s not going to happen. And I was like, how dare you tell me that, you can’t, you know, tamp down my dreams. And he said, you just, you’ve got all the heart, but you don’t have the talent. And no matter how hard you work, it’s just not going to happen for you.

Amy Carroll
He was supposed to give you a trophy.

Sarah Bowling
I know, I know, a participation prize, right? Like, you win from showing up. But it was an internal deception. And I didn’t like it what I heard because it ran against what I wanted, but I needed it. And it was a good, hard to hear. But I think sometimes we hear these things and they run against our internal deceptions. And so again, we need Holy Spirit to help us on the inside, not only determining external truth, like what’s fake and not, but then internal. And I think of those two, I think the more dangerous one is internal deception. And I think there – the world is full of full of people who have a lot of internal deception, and some of that includes us.

Amy Carroll
Oh, wow, you just sounded like that coach there.

Sarah Bowling
Just stepped on toes. Sorry.

Amy Carroll
That was good.

Cheri Gregory
That is so good.

One of the chapters in your book focuses on abandonment experiences and having an orphan mindset. So what do you mean by these? And why discuss them in a book about the Holy Spirit?

Sarah Bowling
Yeah. So in Jesus’ introduction, he introduced his Holy Spirit to the disciples on like, Monday. Thursday, the Last Supper, John 14-17. And in that introduction, Jesus says, I will not leave you as orphans. And so the problem is, when we read our Bibles, we read them in chapter and verse. But when it was written, it wasn’t written in chapter and verse, it was all continuous. And so when you read, I will not leave you as orphans, the preceding verse is about Holy Spirit. And so Jesus is telling his disciples, dude, I’m going to hit the road tonight, everything is going to go down the toilet, and it’s going to look hopeless, and you’re going to you might think, I have abandoned you, I have left you, but you are not orphans. Because he says in the preceding verse, I’m giving you Holy Spirit.

And this goes with – this is so important – this goes with Romans 8:14, as well as Romans 8:16. Because in those two verses, it says, Holy Spirit, those who are led by the Spirit of God, are the children of God. And then in verse 16, says, Holy Spirit, bears witness with our spirit, that we are God’s children. And so that whole orphan mindset. And I think we all have varying degrees of that where we feel abandoned, we feel excluded, we’ve been left out, you know, we feel like we’re isolated kind of on the outside. But Holy Spirit is the piece that reconciles us with God that says, hey, you belong in the family. You’re not an orphan. You are a family, you’re son, you’re daughter, you’re fearfully, wonderfully made, you’re deeply loved, because that’s who God is. Holy Spirit convinces us and Romans 8:16, that word bears witness can also be translated to convince, convince us to on the inside, that I’m in the family. I’m not like kind of the servant on the outside, looking through the windows wishing I could join. I have a seat at the table. And welcome. I’m not the kind of redheaded stepchild, I’m welcome to participate, to pull up a chair and enjoy the feast. The feast that God has put in front of – our Father has put in front of us, as family.

Cheri Gregory
I’m seeing more and more books and articles coming out about attachment issues in adults, attachment theory started with children, and it’s now so I just feel like there’s, this really could speak a lot to those who are recognizing attachment needs or wounds or whatever you call them.

Sarah Bowling
That’s completely true. And it’s that contrast. I think they’re the end of the spectrum, attachment versus abandonment. Those are really huge issues. And I couldn’t agree more. I think they’re very – and a lot of times if we’re not aware of what’s happening on the inside of us and again, our filters, perceptions, then we struggle. And I think Holy Spirit wants to lead us into truth and illuminate, illuminate the interior, so that we recognize and we live in attachment with God rather than disconnection and separation.

Amy Carroll
So beautifully said.

Well, the title of your book is Your Friendship with Holy Spirit. And the subtitle is An Interactive Guide to Growing Your Relationship With God, you gave us a copy each of us this summer, and we have gone through them and browsing through that I can see how completely interactive it truly is. So can you tell our friends who are listening about the process that you guide them through in this book?

Sarah Bowling
Yeah, so this is a relationship guide. So again, relationship starts off with two, and you have to appreciate who you are. And so that’s kind of some of the process is partly self discovery, but also discovering, at the same time, who Holy Spirit is. And so it’s a little bit of both at the same, because again, it’s relationship. And so I really try to appreciate it and integrate John chapter 14-16, and, and helping cultivate a reader and who is holy spirit, introducing and welcoming and cultivating that kind of connection, awareness.

And then I also as we go through the book, there’s also a piece that I do with Romans chapter 8. And in Romans chapter 8, it is the most densely packed chapter in the whole Bible, with Holy Spirit, over 20 times Holy Spirit is mentioned just in that one chapter. And then what I do is I look at all the verbs that are associated with each mention of Holy Spirit. And what are those verbs actions? So this relationship guide kind of walks us through who and what Holy Spirit does and is. And then what does that look like for me, you know, and how do I do my relationships?

And so one of the things I love about this is, I really, and I felt Holy Spirit said this to me, Sarah, everybody is not you. Everybody doesn’t do their closest friendships like you do. There are people who do their closest friendships in different ways. So you need to share as you write this, appreciate that some people are going to be activity based, some people are going to be like a book club, some people do their relationships, closest friendships based around a project, you know, like, some activity, it might be working out, it might be a cleaning, or organizing, it might be snowboarding, I mean, there’s so there’s a lot of contexts for how we do our relationships. And that’s part of this interactive guide is, is seeing Holy Spirit is not trying to turn you into somebody that you’re not, but celebrate really who you are, and go from who you are, and grow in a deeper connection with Holy Spirit. So is it very interactive, and kind of a little bit of a process, but also appreciating everybody is very unique. And we all do things in different ways. And that’s not bad. That’s actually really, really good.

Cheri Gregory
I recently had somebody tell me, sometimes reflection is more important than getting more information. And you know, I’m an input gal. So I’m like, just fill my head with knowledge, and I’m happy. But what I noticed when going through your guide, I love that you call it a guide, was oh, there are so many invitations for the reflection, so that it’s not just head knowledge. But it also didn’t feel like – like if somebody loves journaling, it felt like there was enough space to really have at it. But if somebody is not a journal, or it didn’t feel like they were, you know, going to get a C minus on their assignment if they didn’t fill in all the lines.

Sarah Bowling
That’s fantastic. That was my heart. I was like, oh, because not everybody likes that. So again, I’m trying to like, because I think Holy Spirit is affirming, yes, affirms us, confirms, doesn’t accuse, doesn’t condemn, doesn’t belittle and shame. So I wanted to be careful on the tone of the book to make sure and be sensitive to the diversity of readers.

Cheri Gregory
Yeah, I think you nailed it.

So we invited our friends who listened to Grit’N’Grace to submit some questions. And as always, they came up with a couple of great ones. Amy?

Amy Carroll
Well, I love this one. And it’s my question, too. So how do you know when it’s really the Holy Spirit speaking to you and not just your lunch, butterflies, wishes, hopes, or dreams? One of my pet peeves is people call calling the God card, you kind of pointed to that a bit ago, so I can’t wait to hear your answer.

Sarah Bowling
Yeah, and that God, card, man. I mean, when they do when somebody throws that down, you know, I mean, that’s tricky. So first off, I think we have to, number one, appreciate that. The Bible has to be kind of the plumb line. If we’re sensing something that runs contrary to what the Bible says, then we probably are not sensing Holy Spirit. Because Holy Spirit will continually agree with the Bible. And I think if you’re like, well, I don’t know what the Bible says, well, that’s a great opportunity to find out and kind of explore and learn. So I think that’s got to be ground zero.

I also think that some of the ways that I can recognize Holy Spirit, I’ve kind of learned some of these over the course, and I think for all of us, we have to give each other, give ourselves permission to mess up and to fail. But to grow and learn, right, make new mistakes, not the same ones. Let’s make new ones, and let’s appreciate to that perfect is for heaven and practices for Earth. And so I want to follow and hear Holy Spirit well, thoroughly, and accurately. And there are times when I think I do, when I do I know. Absolutely. And I’ve seen the results of that and affirmed yep, that was right on the money. But there are times when I have missed Holy Spirit, I thought I was following, but I wasn’t. And so even last week, I was in a situation and I was walking down a hallway. And I had the probe, I thought, in my mind, I was like, I’m going to do this, because I think it would be very helpful and constructive. And it felt to me like Holy Spirit said, no, don’t, you’re trying to make your own way. And you’re not letting me lead you. So I was like, huh.

And so sometimes I can recognize Holy Spirit, when it runs against my natural inclination. And when there’s contrary there, sometimes too, I also recognize Holy Spirit in repetition. So if I hear something, again, or I see something again, it happened to me this morning, there’s a book that I’ve been thinking of, and I’m in my morning prayer time, and just kind of enjoying nice coffee in the Bible. And I see this book coming to my mind again, I’m like, and that came out of nowhere. And it doesn’t always – I don’t think Holy Spirit always comes out of nowhere. But I also think Holy Spirit will repeat things, just to say, hey, don’t forget, you know, and I’ve had that happen again and again. And so these are some things that have helped me recognize, but I also know when I make a mistake, because there’s not – if – it’s when that I don’t shame myself, because again, that’s what the enemy does. Shame, accuse, condemn, you know, that’s the enemy’s voice. I appreciate. I learn. I grow. And Holy Spirit says, come on, pick yourself up. You know, let’s keep going. You messed up, okay, fine. But we can keep going.

Cheri Gregory
You know, Amy has this saying when we’re discussing something and a truth that we need to hear comes up, but it, like you said, it runs a little contrary to what comes so naturally, she’ll say, “Oh, it hurts so good.” You know, like you said, it’s that fine line where the Holy Spirit is not condemning. But there’ll be so many times where something will come up, and I’ll be like, well, I would not have thought that on my own. I could have gone my whole life without thinking that because now I have to do something harder. But I know it’s going to be good for me and those in my life.

Amy Carroll
Well, and I noticed in your bio, Sarah, I really love this, you said that you’re led by the Holy Spirit and anchored in the Word. And I was like, oh, that’s what we need to grasp is that they never contradict each other.

It’s true. And I think you know, you have too much of the Bible, you dry up. And if you have too much of a Holy Spirit, you blow up, you know, you kind of like woo. And I think both are when you have both the Bible and Holy Spirit together. It’s infused with life. And that’s so important. Yes, yeah.

Cheri Gregory
Alright.

So our second question, when someone quenches the spirit, say, in a group discussion, is there an appropriate way to disagree and/or redirect the conversation without making the person look dumb or making them react defensively?

Sarah Bowling
That’s a great question. And I have done the whole shooting match on that. I mean, I’ve had to go back to the person afterwards and apologize. I’m really sorry. That was harsh, what I said, and I’m sorry, I should do better. Please forgive me. So when I’ve messed up, and I think what I’m learning is, in a small group particularly, is I’m learning when I send somebody is kind of off the plot, you know, they’re missing, I pause in my own heart, and I say, okay, what would you have me do here? And this is, you know, this is one of the gifts of Holy Spirit is discernment. And I think Holy Spirit is also a spirit of wisdom, and truth. And then, once I kind of had the sense of it, then what would you have me do with this? How would you have me redirect? Would you have me talk to the person on the side, you know, kind of offline? And in the moment, you know, obviously, you don’t want to embarrass him. And I think sometimes we can be affirming, you know, that was really interesting that you said that, have you thought about..? And sometimes you can ask a question. And I think too, the other thing I think is important is we can’t take responsibility. If someone sometimes people use their feelings as manipulation, and we have to kind of, you know, go through those weeds and figure out so I think there’s a lot of pieces to that to think about and unpack but I think in the moment, my best advice would be turn inside a little bit, ask Holy Spirit, what’s happening? And what would you have me do? You know, how would you have me guide this and affirm the person, but redirect, kind of stay on target and then asking questions, I think is a good way to sometimes do that in a gentle way. If it’s not attacking, hey, do you really think, you know, we can ask questions that that in a way that’s gracious, without being combative.

Cheri Gregory
I love that. I love that pause. Because that’s going to stop reactivity, just putting that little bit of a gap is going to open us to all the possibilities rather than going straight into fight, flight, freeze, or fawn or any of the other, you know, basically brainstem things that we can go into. So that’s so important.

Amy Carroll
Well, you’ve given us so much wisdom in this interview Sarah, on a topic – I’m so refreshed because we just don’t talk about Holy Spirit and outside this has been great. What final words would you give to the women who are listening that really want to deepen their friendship with Holy Spirit?

Sarah Bowling
I was praying, and just this morning, I felt Holy Spirit said to me, it’s in Romans 8:26, that Holy Spirit helps us in our weaknesses. And I was just kind of sitting with that, with Holy Spirit saying, hey. In the past, I’ve kind of started to inventory weaknesses. What are my weaknesses? Holy Spirit, tell me. I mean, I have a good sense of it. But I’m sure You’re more clear, but inviting help. And I think as women we need a lot of help. We you know, how many times we multitask. You know, we get in over our head, you know, or we think we can do something. There’s insecurities and fears, and all that stuff. And Holy Spirit is there to help us. And so I just think for our listeners, whoever that we can say help. And maybe we could see Holy Spirit. The Spirit’s nickname is help. And when we say help, then I think Holy Spirit’s like ooh! Ready. Thank you for the invitation.

Cheri Gregory
Friends, we so appreciate you tuning in each and every week.

Amy Carroll
This week, our ministries were happy to make this interview with Sarah possible. Make sure to visit Cheri at sensitiveandstrong.com, the place for HSP Christian women to find connection. And connect with me at amycarroll.org, where I’m developing a community of women with tender hearts and strong voices.

Cheri Gregory
Check out this episode’s web page at gritngracethepodcast.com/episode255. There you’ll find this week’s transcript, a link to Sarah’s book Your Friendship with Holy Spirit: An Interactive Guide to Growing Your Relationship With God, a link to Amy’s website, amycarroll.org, and a link to the Sensitive and Strong website sensitiveandstrong.com.

Amy Carroll
Be sure to join us next week, when we’ll be talking with Cassandra Baker, a health life and mental health coach who will be teaching us about developing greater health through a healthy relationship with food. Not diet culture.

Cheri Gregory
I am – cannot wait. I’m all ears.

Amy Carroll
Did I say health enough, there, Cheri? She’s gonna help us be healthy.

Cheri Gregory
She’s gonna healthy us up. Okay, I like that.

For today, grow your grit,

Amy Carroll
embrace God’s grace,

Cheri Gregory
and as God reveals the next step to live your one life well,

Amy Carroll
we’ll be cheering you on! So –

Both
take it!

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